tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762293635463803805.post2376976329158407548..comments2022-10-19T15:54:10.874-07:00Comments on Guesstimated approximations: Imagine 100% renewables -- what happens when there's no sun or wind?Angus Wallacehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01518875828382696708noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762293635463803805.post-13731403233562212542016-09-22T16:59:23.217-07:002016-09-22T16:59:23.217-07:00Hi latheChuck,
I agree with you. I try and avoid ...Hi latheChuck,<br /><br />I agree with you. I try and avoid using power at night, precisely because I feel it supports coal power (in Australia we have no nuclear). However, in this article I'm talking about 100% renewables, and the transfer of that renewable energy around the country -- much of which can happen during periods of low demand.<br /><br />Right now, demand is low at night (relative to the day) and this is despite incentives to use more power at night -- if we remove the night-discount, and create a day-discount (when PV is plentiful) then we'd see an even larger shift to day-use of electricity.<br /><br />"How will they know when power will be cheap.."<br />I think it would be down to the amount of electricity held in storage, and weather forecasts. To be honest, I don't know -- there's a lot to work out here!<br /><br />I like your idea of fluctuating the voltage to signal price. The only problem then is billing -- we'd all effectively be paying a rapidly-fluctuating "spot price" for electricity which would be hard for customers to understand, and would also require that everyone had a smart meter. This might be what we have to do.<br /><br />Cheers, AngusAngus Wallacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01518875828382696708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762293635463803805.post-59122352645753630942016-09-22T16:49:40.034-07:002016-09-22T16:49:40.034-07:00I see that you're aware of the idea of "c...I see that you're aware of the idea of "consuming electricity during the night, when it's cheap" (not necessarily in this article). But it's cheap overnight because coal and nuclear boilers are most efficient when run at a constant power level, day and night. If we bought electricity on a dynamic "spot market", electricity would be cheap when the sun shines, when the wind blows, and when there's plenty of water behind the dam. <br /><br />The complication is that the consumer cost of electricity is (in the US, at least) tightly regulated, and industrial users make massive long-term investments based on the expected cost of electricity. Some industrial users can adjust their demand to track current supply. Some do that now, like steel-making furnaces that melt during the night and pour during the day. But how can they plan their production without knowing from one week to the next whether power will be cheap or expensive? How does the average consumer decide when power is "cheap enough" to store? <br />Suppose the grid allowed the voltage to fluctuate a little more than it does now. +5% is a signal that power is cheap; -5% is a signal that power is expensive. Then a simple sensor could adjust some kinds of consumption automatically. (We already know that a voltage sag means that the grid is stressed, that power is getting scarce. Now connect that to the price.)latheChuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03112036274542149604noreply@blogger.com